Comments on: Penny For Your Thoughts? http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/2009/04/penny-for-your-thoughts-9/ Following Blues From Near and Far Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:02:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: anston blades http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/2009/04/penny-for-your-thoughts-9/comment-page-1/#comment-835 anston blades Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0000 http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/?p=381#comment-835 Over the next few seasons games were delayed by a few minutes if traffic problems seemed to indicate that away fans may be late. The fear of a crush if there was a rush to get in the groundwas a big worry for a time. Over the next few seasons games were delayed by a few minutes if traffic problems seemed to indicate that away fans may be late. The fear of a crush if there was a rush to get in the groundwas a big worry for a time.

]]> By: Pete Cresswell http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/2009/04/penny-for-your-thoughts-9/comment-page-1/#comment-834 Pete Cresswell Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:32:53 +0000 http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/?p=381#comment-834 I think it was a combination of opening the gate with no plan for stewarding the fans as they went in. So everyone went for the most direct way to the terraces and as there were lateral barriers as well as the fences the pen in question in effect became a deadend tunnel. If they'd had stewards and delayed the kick off by 15 minutes it wouldn't have happened. I think for the first few minutes everyone thought it looked like crowd trouble - I know I did. I think it was a combination of opening the gate with no plan for stewarding the fans as they went in. So everyone went for the most direct way to the terraces and as there were lateral barriers as well as the fences the pen in question in effect became a deadend tunnel. If they’d had stewards and delayed the kick off by 15 minutes it wouldn’t have happened. I think for the first few minutes everyone thought it looked like crowd trouble – I know I did.

]]> By: TarantiniDust http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/2009/04/penny-for-your-thoughts-9/comment-page-1/#comment-833 TarantiniDust Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:15:11 +0000 http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/?p=381#comment-833 It seems to me that the problem was not the opening of the gate, as I understand it people were being crushed against the walls of the stadium and the tragedy could easily have occurred outside the ground, but the failure to close the gangway to the 2 pens that were overfull. It seems to me that the problem was not the opening of the gate, as I understand it people were being crushed against the walls of the stadium and the tragedy could easily have occurred outside the ground, but the failure to close the gangway to the 2 pens that were overfull.

]]> By: anston blades http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/2009/04/penny-for-your-thoughts-9/comment-page-1/#comment-831 anston blades Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:45:19 +0000 http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/?p=381#comment-831 Yes it was seen as a cool act to go against authority and invade pitches- Fans fault which led to fencing being introduced. that was part of the authorities solution to hooligans. at Bramall lane it was removed before the very next match and the 1 or 2 idiots that still thought it cool and used the opportunity to invade the pitch were shamed immediatly by the rest of us who felt the guilt of Hillsborough and realised we had to change. if you feel still let down by your club and its facilities i am sure it will change. I Myself marvel at the wonderful conditions we have now. It was so bad before Hillsborough. I Know someone who went to uni and had to do a massive investigation for his subject on the Hillsborough disaster. I will try to speak to him about his findings. Yes it was seen as a cool act to go against authority and invade pitches- Fans fault which led to fencing being introduced. that was part of the authorities solution to hooligans. at Bramall lane it was removed before the very next match and the 1 or 2 idiots that still thought it cool and used the opportunity to invade the pitch were shamed immediatly by the rest of us who felt the guilt of Hillsborough and realised we had to change. if you feel still let down by your club and its facilities i am sure it will change. I Myself marvel at the wonderful conditions we have now.
It was so bad before Hillsborough.
I Know someone who went to uni and had to do a massive investigation for his subject on the Hillsborough disaster. I will try to speak to him about his findings.

]]> By: akvbcfc http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/2009/04/penny-for-your-thoughts-9/comment-page-1/#comment-826 akvbcfc Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:50:46 +0000 http://www.joysandsorrows.co.uk/?p=381#comment-826 anston blades, i myself am less than 20 years old so I was not alive when Hillsborough happened. I understand your point 100% mate, i do feel for those policemen, but, at the same time, there was one decision which was made the wrong way. however, now, i do have sympathy for the policemen who are still hanted by it, and i have sympathy for the lone ambulanceman who couldn't take all of the dead away because there were too many of them. Yes mate, some blame needs to lie with the fans, but i find it hard to fathom how if hooliganism was that bad, why wasnt the policing made better to deal with it? Adding to that, why were the police not equipped with better equiptment, not dodgy radios which barely worked? If they had been given decent equpitment, the ambulances and fire engines would not have been turned away and events may have followed a different direction. Everyone has to take some of the blame, but for me, the overiding issue in this debate is, why was that gate opened? However, nobody is perfect, that decision to open the gate was incorrect and I'm sure the policeman would admit to that. However, why did it take 20 years for anyone to take the blame? Why? I would like to point out, that if hooliganism was that bad (i have no doubt that from what you and other people say, it was bad), who should have acted in the first place to tackle it? The fans? Can one set of fans make a difference? I'd say no. I'd say that if it was that bad, then the FA and the football league should have been the ones to find the troublemakers and take action. anston blades, i myself am less than 20 years old so I was not alive when Hillsborough happened.

I understand your point 100% mate, i do feel for those policemen, but, at the same time, there was one decision which was made the wrong way. however, now, i do have sympathy for the policemen who are still hanted by it, and i have sympathy for the lone ambulanceman who couldn’t take all of the dead away because there were too many of them.

Yes mate, some blame needs to lie with the fans, but i find it hard to fathom how if hooliganism was that bad, why wasnt the policing made better to deal with it?
Adding to that, why were the police not equipped with better equiptment, not dodgy radios which barely worked? If they had been given decent equpitment, the ambulances and fire engines would not have been turned away and events may have followed a different direction.

Everyone has to take some of the blame, but for me, the overiding issue in this debate is, why was that gate opened? However, nobody is perfect, that decision to open the gate was incorrect and I’m sure the policeman would admit to that. However, why did it take 20 years for anyone to take the blame? Why?

I would like to point out, that if hooliganism was that bad (i have no doubt that from what you and other people say, it was bad), who should have acted in the first place to tackle it? The fans? Can one set of fans make a difference? I’d say no. I’d say that if it was that bad, then the FA and the football league should have been the ones to find the troublemakers and take action.

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